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Andrea Mitchell Reports

News/Business. Interviews with political figures with host Andrea Mitchell. New.

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Fbi 16, Us 8, Paula Broadwell 8, Jill Kelley 7, Susan Rice 7, Cia 7, Pentagon 7, Afghanistan 6, Benghazi 6, David Petraeus 5, John Kerry 5, Washington 5, Nancy Pelosi 4, Allen 4, Msnbc 4, Citi 4, Andrea Mitchell 4, Jay Carney 4, Massachusetts 3, Libya 3,
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  MSNBC    Andrea Mitchell Reports    News/Business. Interviews with political  
   figures with host Andrea Mitchell. New.  

    November 13, 2012
    10:00 - 10:59am PST  

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right now on "andrea mitchell reports" what's happening to our generals? now the scandal spreads from general petraeus to his replacement general john allen the top commander in afghanistan. his nomination to become the supreme allied commander in nato is side tracked by e-mails with tampa socialite jill kelley. >> this has the elements in some ways of a hollywood movie or a trashy novel but the bottom line, you're talking about families, youpds standing military leaders and the impact it has on the country and overall questions about the fbi. >> the pentagon says it has uncovered 20 to 30,000 potentially inappropriate documents exchanged between general allen and kelley the woman's whose complaints first triggered the investigation that brought down petraeus. what about paula broadwell's role? late monday night with her consent federal agents served
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broadwell's home for hours, carting out boxes and bags as they are wrapping up their investigation. >> defense secretary leon panetta on route to australia was the first top administration official to comment on the petraeus departure. >> i think he took the right step, and i think it's important when you're director of the cia with all the challenges that face you, and have -- that personal integrity comes first and foremost. >> panetta a former cia director and the washington shuffle with panetta and clinton saying they want out of the second term. will john kerry now go to the pentagon? can susan rice be confirmed as secretary of state? and will nancy pelosi run for leader again? and what a welcome to washington the new class of congress arriving just in time for a classic d.c. scandal. and a different fall from grace,
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jon stewart, crowns himself the worst journalist in the world. >> anyone out there who thought i may have actual journalists instincts i give you a snippet of my interview. >> he loves serving, to be in the arena. i thought i was going to test him, he tested me, crushed his pelvis. he wanted to help me with the project. he can turn water into bottled water. >> the whole time i was staring at how defined her arms were. [ inaudible ]. i am the worst jurmist in the world. for god's sake the title of her book was "all in." she might as well -- >> good day. i'm andrea mitchell live in washington. we begin with the broadening and complicated scope of the petraeus investigation that has now ensnared his successor, commander of all forces in
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afghanistan, general john allen. joining me with their latest reporting, justice correspondent pete williams, nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker and nbc news national investigative correspondent michael isikoff. we now go to the white house where jay carney is first beginning to answer questions about this. so let's put our conversation on hold and listen to what he has to say and we'll be right back. >> supreme allied commander europe, pending the investigation of general allen's conduct by the department of defense ig. the president remains focused on supporting our troops and coalition partners in afghanistan who general allen continues to lead as he has done so ably over a year. the president has nominated general doneford to be the next commander of isaf and reiterates his belief the senate should act to confirm general dunford. his hearings are this week. >> is it accurate to say the president still has full faith in general allen? >> he has full faith in general allen, believes he is doing and
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has done an excellent job at isaf and refer you to the pentagon for the process under way for general allen. >> just to kind a take a step back, only a week since election day as you know, and we've seen the cia director resign under pressure and disgrace over the scandal and now see the leader in afghanistan implicated in this. what's the president's reaction to this? is he -- is he disgusted? embarrassed? what should we know here? >> well, the president was certainly surprised when he was informed about the situation regarding general petraeus on thursday. he greatly appreciates general petraeus' remarkable service to his country, both in uniform and at the cia. as he said in his statement, his thoughts and prayers go out to both general petraeus and holley petraeus at this time. he's focused on his policy
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agenda and he has confidence in the acting director at the cia and he has confidence in the military to carry out the various missions that he has asked them to carry out. on specific individuals and matters pertain to the recent revelations, i would refer you to the pentagon and the ig be. on the one hand. and to the fbi with regards to general petraeus. >> but he's not -- big picture watching this, he's not shaking his head, saying, guys, we need a more credible, confident, leadership? >> he's not going to make grand pronouncements or decisions about things based on, you know, two situations, two individual cases. he's focused on the missions that the military is tasked with carrying out and the cia and the
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general intelligence community is tasked with carrying out, and with -- enacting his overall agenda, which encompasses not just national security policy, but obviously domestic policy. >> i see. >> yes. has the president spoken to general allen directly? >> not that i'm aware of. >> secretary panetta? >> i would have to check that. secretary panetta has been traveling. >> as sort of a follow-up to ben's question, does the president see this in general as an unwelcomed distraction at a time when he's just -- was re-elected and has a bunch of priorities in terms of fiscal cliff and in terms of his cabinet? >> well, i certainly i think wouldn't call it welcome. obviously the -- as i said to ben, the information about general petraeus came to him as a surprise and he is very appreciative of general
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petraeus' remarkable service to his country. but the president's focused on the agenda that he believes is important for this country, that he has to carry out working with lawmakers here in washington and that includes, as you know, his number one priority, which is jobs and economic growth. and he is engaging in meetings this week on those issues, on the issues of the approach we need to take to ensure that we have the right economic policy, the right fiscal policy, to help the economy grow and help it continue to create jobs. he is also continuously focused on his foreign policy and national security agenda. he has great confidence in the acting cia director, confidence in his military and the secretary of defense and the defense department to carry out the missions that he's assigned to them. but he's got, obviously, a lot
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that he wants to get to work on and he's doing that this week. >> how does this affect, though, his need to revamp the national security team? >> again, these are specific questions about specific individuals and posts. i can say now, even though you haven't asked, i have no announcements to make with regards to personnel and no spec wlags to engage in. i can tell you the president has not made a decision on personnel matters and you will not hear me discuss them until the president has made those decisions and announced them. >> thank you. >> jay, you're saying these are regarding two specific people you can't extrapolate but these are two of the president's top military brass either involved in an extramarital affair or seemingly involved what might be inappropriate behavior. is the president as commander of chief at all worried about an inappropriate culture in the military? >> i really would ask you to not
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extrapolate broadly. the president has great confidence in the military, great confidence in his commanders and will continue to have that confidence. with regards to the specific instances here, i think you need to address your questions to the justice department and the fbi or the defense department. the president's focused on doing the work that the american people re-elected him to do and he's continuing to do that. >> the white house have reason to believe national security was ever breached or threatened at any point in either of these instances? >> you know, i think that questions like that which go to matters under investigation, i would refer you to the investigative bodies. the president is focused on the work he needs to do. i think there's been substantial reporting on some of this and, you know, the president spoke with and met with general petraeus and agreed with his
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decision he could no longer lead the cia and accepted his resignation. he has great faith in the acting director and the president is focused on the agenda he wants to carry out. >> on another topic, i know you're not going to address personnel matters does the president have confidence that -- i know he's a big fan of ambassador susan rice. does he have confidence she could pass a senate confirmation for any post in a future cabinet? >> again, i will not engage in speculation about personnel matters. i can tell you the president believes ambassador rice has done an excellent job and is grateful for her service. >> yes, john. >> jay, this investigation has been going on for months. how is it that the white house didn't have any idea of this until the day after the election and congress a few days later? >> well, i would refer you to the fbi. they have as my -- as i understand it, protocols in place for when they notify the legislative and executive branches of investigations.
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it is simply a fact that the white house was not aware of the situation regarding general petraeus until wednesday and the situation regarding general allen until friday. so the fbi is the place to go in terms of explanation of the protocols they follow. i understand that is the answer that they will give, that there are protocols they follow that govern how they inform the various branches of government of these kinds of investigations. >> do you understand how people would think this is utterly bizarre? >> jay carney saying the president was surprised by the petraeus announcement for the petraeuss news on thursday that came to him on thursday but still has great confidence in the military, does not want to extrapolate any broader conclusions about the military from the examples of these two generals who have gotten into some difficulty through these investigations. joining us at the table, pete
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williams, our justice correspondent, kristen well sker, white house correspondent, michael isikoff. >> pete, first to you. we're seeing that jay carney is referring all messages and information and all questions to the justice department. you cover the justice department and the fbi. how did they get into this investigation now of general allen? they were looking at jill kelley's e-mails presumably because she complained about harassment, potential harassment about threatening e-mails that were anonymous and that, of course, led to paula broadwell who led to david petraeus and the relationship that was then uncovered. how did general allen get into this mix? >> your question has the answer in it. basically, jill kelley complained she was getting harassing e-mails. the fbi eventually found who was sending the e-mails, but that caused them to look at both the e-mails that jill kelley was receiving and the ones that paula broadwell was sending.
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in the midst of looking at the e-mails jill kelley was receiving here are all these messages from general allen. so, you know, they -- the obviously concluded there was no crime in the e-mail exchanges he had with her, but they felt it should be referred to the defense department as a personnel matter, which is the same phrase they used when they told the director of national intelligence, general clapper, about what petraeus was doing. no crime in that what turned out to be an adulterous relationship, but the boss should know. >> the other thing that happened overnight we were watching real time as ten fbi agents arrived in charlotte at the home of paula broadwell and started carting out bags and boxes. this was a consensual is search. why if this investigation was nearing conclusion. >> being a legal term of art. they didn't need a search warrant. you have to have a search warrant if somebody doesn't want
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you to come into your house that's the legal authority you have to go in if nobody wants you to come in. they had her permission to search the house. while it looks dramatic, it's making sure they haven't overlooked anything. when you have a search warrant you have legal authority because you say i think there's a reason to think there's a piece of evidence right there and i need to find it. this was the opposite. i just want to make sure there's nothing i've missed. i'm told the justice department has concluded there was no cyber offense. what they want to make certain of, they did find a low-level sort of scheduling document on one of her computers, classified document, they want to make sure she didn't have any other classified materials she shouldn't have had. that's -- they just are, you know, making sure they haven't missed anything. >> kristen welker, you've been looking into the background and the interesting friendships shall we put of jill kelley. why does she know all these
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generals. >>? she is a mother of three and lives in tampa, florida, with her husband who is a doctor. someone who has volunteered her time to helping wounded warriors and has made connections through her social circle. if you talk to folks in tampa who know her they call her a socialite. she has these connections and they say she's not shy about using the connections, being seen with these folks, so she's one out and about certainly in tampa. but i've been talking to people in tampa who know her and they stress that they're shocked by this news. this is the last thing they would have expected from her because she is a mother of three. >> we understand that, in fact, the petraeuss were family friends, david petraeus helped vouch for her sister who was going through a difficult divorce and custody situation. her identical twin sister we should say. and also that this whole investigation started when she knew an fbi agent, they were friends. he, in fact, had send her,
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according to law enforcement officials, had sent her an e-mail. >> right. >> where he was naked from the waist up. and had her that e-mail and she turned to him or he suggested helping her to launch the original investigation and he is the same fbi agent who was then taken out of this investigation and has been now put under some sort of administrative scrutiny for his role and supposedly inappropriate behavior and it was he that led to the tip to eric cantor and other house members. >> that's right. to some extent, that's the irony of this. she went to this person who was presumably a friend, acquaintan acquaintance, and said, i'm getting these harassing e-mails. now it has raised questions about her. i can tell you we also speak with her brother in philadelphia, one of the reporters at our nbc affiliate in philadelphia, and he stands by her and says look, this is someone who is a dedicated wife and mom and so he is trying to
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certainly take away some of the speculation surrounding how this all began and the fact that she was having these questionable e-mail exchanges with general allen. >> michael isikoff you have been talking to your law enforcement sources in how this happened and how an investigation into david petraeus, could lead to a resignation of the cia director, has enveloped the next most famous general, the leader of our forces of all international forces in afghanistan, who was about to become the supreme allied commander of nato and now that is derailed. >> it is quite a twisted tale with lots of turns here, but what we're told is this began as a case of cyber harassment. there are statutes that forbid you to -- one from threatening somebody over the internet. and the original e-mails that jill kelley shows to the fbi agent last june in tampa, this is interesting, don't refer to
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petraeus, but do talk about her relationship with generals at the u.s. central command and u.s. special operations command. according to a source presumably we can assume one of those was general allen. >> and these harassing e-mails, we have confirmed, and all sides have confirmed, they came from paula broadwell? >> the fbi was able to trace them back, although they were sent through anonymous accounts, they were able to trace them back to paula broadwell. i do think, and this is interesting, what you're talking to pete about, the fbi's role here, the revelations of the last 24 hours are probably going to intensify the questions that congress is going to have about the way fbi, the way fbi handled this last -- the last couple days we're being told the fbi just happened to wrap up the case the week before the election. it did the final interviews with david petraeus and paula
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broadwell. that last week. just a few days before the election and then they wrap up the case and tell james clapper. now, it turns out, the case wasn't quite wrapped up, they still had more additional work to do with the search on paula broadwell's house and they had this additional information about general allen that they felt compelled to alert the white house and the pentagon about so that raises the question why was it just that week of election day they first go to clapper and does it have anything to do with the phone call that eric cantor the house majority leader made to the fbi just a few days before? >> andrea -- if i could just add one point, talking to lawmakers on the hill saying yet again, they're learning about this through media reports and that is only fanning the flames of their frustration which they first started talking about at the end of last week should have been told earlier. >> relations to the hill are not off to a good start.
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pete, kristen and michael isikoff, thank you very much. coming up next, deciding on a permanent cia director, it won't be the only position the president now needs to fill in his second term on the national security team. a lot of the buzz over some high-level jobs surrounds the senior senator from massachusetts. joining me for our daily fix, chris cizilla, msnbc contributor and managing editor of post politics.com. "the washington post," your colleague and our friend. >> yep. >> the first to start reporting this and your other colleagues at "the washington post" that john kerry, who has so long wanted to be secretary of state, may be instead offered secretary of defense. they want -- i've been told from all of my sources they very much want secretary of state nomination to go to susan rice, our u.n. ambassador. >> right. you know, kudos to my colleag colleagues. in some ways this doesn't change from a political perspective that john kerry -- may to the be long for the senate. whether it's state or defense,
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you know, if he does leave, sitting presidents don't love picking sitting senators of their party, simply because it sort of creates problems for them down ballot. this could actually create a problem. scott brown, now the defeated republican senator from massachusetts, lost to elizabeth warren convincingly a week ago today, would be a formidable candidate in a mid 2013 special election. democrats do have sort of a little bit of a cushion. they won seats last tuesday, they have a little senate cushion but i can tell you there's probably some grimaces about the idea if john kerry doesn't get state he'll get defense within senate democratic circles. >> a democratic governor who could appoint himself. >> right. >> or figure out some other way, could run for that office himself and run against scott brown and he would be a formidable candidate. they have some democrats in massachusetts who are possible
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candidates. but the other piece is susan rice. i have to tell you, be she is so popular with the white house, there is no question in my mind, i've never been more certain about a nomination or the intention to nominate. not just a trial balloon. but she is being blamed by many on the hill, democrats and republicans, and the white house response to that is on benghazi, that her interviews that sunday morning, were completely the talking points given to her by the cia and she should not be blamed for that. there are democrats who say she would have a hard confirmation battle. >> right. this would look like and i always trust your reporting on these things, andrea, be that the white house is -- if not deadset on susan rice, certainly close. but there are many conservatives, republicans and kind of sort of pragmatic democrats who don't want the fight to say this is going to be a huge nomination fight. is that what we want? whether they -- the critics are
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right about her on benghazi or wrong, there's going to be a big nomination fight. > >> chris cizilla thanks for our daily fix. >> cliff notes with senator bob corker. this is "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. [ male announcer ] at scottrade, you won't just find us online, you'll also find us in person, with dedicated support teams at over 500 branches nationwide. so when you call or visit, you can ask for a name you know. because personal service starts with a real person. [ rodger ] at scottrade, seven dollar trades are just the start. our support teams are nearby, ready to help. it's no wonder so many investors are saying... [ all ] i'm with scottrade. constipated? yeah. mm. some laxatives like dulcolax can cause cramps. but phillips' caplets don't. they have magnesium. for effective relief of occasional constipation. thanks. [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'.
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prominent republicans have been rethinking their party's iron clad opposition to new tax revenues in the aftermath of last week's election. democrats are concerning one of mitt romney's proposals imposing a hard cap on income deductions to target the yaffluent. bob bork koshger a member of the -- corker and a member of banking committee. one of the people reaching across the aisle trying to come up with a solution to this fiscal cliff. i want to talk to you about that. before we proceed, you're also
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on the foreign relations committee, what do you think of what has transbe pirds with general petraeus, now general allen, talk of your chair, john kerry, possibly going to the pentagon? >> lot of moving parts. general petraeus is a legend in our state. he's a national hero and i think all of us are shocked and, you know, certainly all of us thinking about him and his wife. this is a traumatic time for them. now it reaches into general allen. a lot of questions about the fbi and the timing and just a lot swirling around. we have a hearing this afternoon on some of the cables we've received regarding benghazi. it's a classified briefing, but i'm sures there's going to be a lot of discussion about all these things during that briefing. >> do you think that the intelligence leaders should have been notified sooner of an fbi investigation going on for months and months into the cia director? >> i was with diane fine stein, we were both on a sunday program
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this week and watched her comments, but talked to her back before we both went on and it's almost beyond belief this would be happening and the leaders of our intelligence community would not know it's happening. there are a lot of questions. they're multi layered questions. i will say i did listen to the end of your last segment and, you know, i've had very high-level conversations at the cia over the last several weeks and certainly before and i still will say it's almost beyond belief that our ambassador to the u.n. on the sunday morning program five days later, would be talking about this event as if it emanated out of some film. i was in libya, i think you know that, i was there about libya but focused on benghazi. it was a preplanned trip but after the events regarding benghazi. there is no question whatsoever that our intelligence officials there on the ground in real time, in real time, while it was
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happening, was letting the highest officials that we have know that this was not a terrorist attack. getting back to the issue you were talking about in the first segment, i still think there are a lot of questions about the public communications, public affairs department, be regarding what happened in libya and hopefully we'll talk about that some today also. >> i want to ask about that. do you think susan rice could be the next secretary of state? do you think she would enjoy the support? the argument from the white house, why blame her from what intelligence guidance she was given if it was bad talking points? >> yeah. i just -- i don't know how the talking point came. again, i've had conversations with the highest levels at cia and i think they, too, are baffled by the communications that took place on that sunday by the ambassador. i think a lot would depend on let's see what those talking points -- let's see what was coming from the cia and the dni
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and others. i think there's a lot that needs to be known before you would know if this is something confirmble. three segments to benghazi, the before, what happened that evening and what happened after. i still, again, it's beyond belief to me that we would have public officials out characterizing this event the way they did five days after the event. so again, i think it depends on us actually seeing these communiques and what was transpiring between the intelligence community and susan rice and others. one thing i will say is, hillary clinton who is a very seasoned official, very mature in her job, you did not see her out on five programs calling this an event that was, you know, created by some film, but a
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coptic christian in california. she at least had the savvy to know not to get herself involved in something like that. these are all questions that will come up. >> i want to ask you about glen hubbard, closest topic, economic adviser to mitt romney, "financial times" suggesting a new approach, being more -- much closer to what the president has been proposing. what are you seeing in your private talks with democrats and republicans? there seems to be a lot of give. >> i'm not part of any gang but i'm talking to multiple players and have been since election day and before and have crafted a bill that i hope can be useful in helping us come to a close here. first of all, i think that, you know, friday's meeting, all of us are going to be watching to see whether it's a photo op or whether this is something where these guys are really going to engage. let's face it, the two most important people in this right now are the president and speaker boehner. i mean they are the most important players as to whether
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we get a result. secondly, i've said from day one, i've been saying it for two years, the most important piece of this, andrea, really is medicare because as you look at glen hubbard, as you look at others talking about all these things, the two are intertwined. in other words, as we see true medicare reforms and you see a real solution to medicare, where people know that we've put this behind us and we've dealt with it, i think you see the dial change as it relates to revenue. so, you know, i've been discussing revenues now for at least two years. i do think republicans are open to revenues that are put in place and a pro growth way, but i think people want to see that we've actually dealt with the problem. we haven't generated more revenues without solving the fundamental problems we have and we have what we want to do is put ourselves on a path towards fiscal solvency. i think the key here really is, medicare and to the extent you dial that up and solve it, i
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think you also dial the other dial which is revenues and i think there are many republicans that are very open to that type of solution. >> senator corker, that sounds -- >> i'm one of those, okay. >> that sounds suspiciously what the president describes as a balanced approach. there may be light at the end of this tunnel. >> i'll let you characterize it. my communication folks might not want to characterize it that way. let me say this, andrea, a lot of focus on, quote, the fiscal cliff at year end. i think people are conflating fiscal solvency with the fiscal cliff. i think what our nation needs to be focused on is the fiscal solvency piece. it would be a crying shame and a tragedy for our nation, to skate past this fiscal cliff issue and not have dealt with this solvency issue. somebody was telling me over the weekend that the budget act of 1990 was fully negotiated in 12
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days. what i hope we won't do is kick the can down the road. we know what the problems are. let's deal with it. let's rip the band-aid off and start focusing on the greatness of this nation again. we have that opportunity over the next month. >> well, i can tell you, it was, indeed, at andrews air force base in 12 days and we were there. thank you very much. >> very good. thank you. >> and up next, the military scandal, how wide is the web? this is "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. time for the entrepreneurs of the week. cath lin and susan are encouraging customers to shop local. they created ladies night in the magnolia park of burbank, california, to boost sales staying open late. make sure to support your local retailers on november 24th for the third annual small business saturday. for more watch "your business" this saturday morning on msnbc. at optionsxpress we're all about options trading.
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thinking what is going on here? >> the large majority of people i talk to, in the military, and some retired people, they say the same thing, it's really a tragedy but it's personal business and should not have resulted in his leaving the cia. and that generally speaking those kinds of things are per n personal unless they involved a senior and subordinate for which people get prosecuted. you heard from diane finestein, people on both sides of aisle in congress saying the same thing, not articulating there was nothing wrong with it, but that petraeus, a really talented guy, sorry we lost him. in the end, i think we're going to look very carefully at people before we elevate them. going to have to be much better vetting. we're one of the few countries where vetting doesn't take place of high ranking people. in the cia, if you're going to work at the lower ranks you get
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polygraphed and a big form. >> it happens at senate confirmation hearings. you're supposed to be vetting, did you ever do this and that? >> it does happen but the director doesn't have to get vetted by the senate. that may take some introspection and changes to that as well. but if you do too much of that, of course, then you have the legislative branch, too much involved in the executive. people arguing it hampers everything. don't forget that we're in an age now where the distribution of information is as -- we're in a revolution. distribution of information is as wide as you can possibly get. anybody knows everything about everybody. it does mean people will have to be more circumspect but we sometimes have to look at the information that's distributed in a way we did not look at it, for example, in the '50s, the '40s when general eisenhower
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was having an affair with his driver kate sumsersby. times have changed, the information distribution has changed and we may have to look at things differently now. >> i think senate conformations will be tougher. i've gone through tough confirmation in the senate for past cia directors but now i think the personal will be professional. what about the military? here you have a military man, two military men, who had we're told, general allen's case a flirtatious e-mail, we don't know what the contact was, it was enough to be referred to the ig in the dod in the pentagon, and does this mean there has to be more focus on character or should we stop being hypocritical about this and say generals are human and their behaviors are really not subject to the military code? >> if you listen to officers and enlisted men, the congress, the people talking about the issue, they would argue that we have to be less hypocritical about the
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fact that people are people and they're going to make mistakes and to the extent they don't have an effect on the mission, for example, we should ignore it. but i don't think you're going to get that from everybody and a certain percentage of people will make a big deal of it. we're talking about the congress now, and the congress probably the last group of people who ought to cast stones at glass houses nos here in the question about the generals themselves, three and four-star generals, larger than life, they do extraordinary things in the case of general petraeus, brilliant, redesigned the whole manual, the fact that he changed the way we fought the war in iraq. too many people surrounding them, does that create -- >> too many, there's no doubt about that.
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a friend some years ago retired from the service as a three-star general said he knew he was really, really retired when the morning after he retired he g got -- came in his house and got in the left rear seat of his car and was startled when nobody was driving it off. >> a different universe altogether. true not only in government, in the military but business as well. people who rise from the bottom and do very, very well, eventually turn out to be at the top of their profession, top of the food chain, make a big mistake when they forget where they came from. >> jack jacobs, someone who does not forget where he came from. >> i try not to. >> thank you very much. up next, will nancy pelosi keep her leadership role? stay with us. n't leave the table till you finish your vegetables. [ clock ticking ] [ male announcer ] there's a better way... v8 v-fusion. vegetable nutrition they need, fruit taste they love. could've had a v8. or...try kids boxes!
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your column in the "financial times" by glen hubbard indicates some movement but the real money is in moving rates not just in capping deductions. >> absolutely. we did carry an interesting piece from glen bub bared, mitt romney's economic adviser in the "financial times" he writes i say the first step is to raise average not marginal tax rates on upper income taxpayers, revenue first from these individuals. so essentially saying, let's talk about the rich. that would seem to open the tore for some kind of discussion the problem is they're still talking about trying to raise money from the rich through closing loopholes rather than actually raising rates. that's going to be a sticking point. >> what about the whole debt ceiling issue? because we're facing that also. not just the expiration of the taxes, expiration of unemployment benefits for 2 million people, the triggering of the alternative minimum tax which affects 26 million
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households we're told but the debt ceiling another sword hanging over the negotiators. >> the debt ceiling is a sword hanging over negotiators. there are people on both sides of the political divide saying, maybe we should just go off the fiscal cliff and bounce up against the debt ceiling and force some kind of fiscal showdown to get to some kind of agreement eventually. i mean the debt ceiling does have the advantage that if they do come to some kind of agreement on the fiscal side or do actually end up raising tax rates in -- on january 1st as the bush-era tax cuts roll off, that actually delays the timing of when the debt ceiling hits because that will increase tax revenues. and it's pretty unclear when looking at the debt ceiling showdown it could be january, or quite a bit later. you do change the dynamic that
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might impact the markets but the political dynamic because you will have a rise in tax revenues and tax rates which the republicans won't feel in any way responsible for. they can blame the other side. and so there are certainly some on the democrat side who would say actually, let's just do that and that will make it easy to discuss and negotiate afterwards. >> what would the market reaction be? >> the market reaction would be negative because you are looking at potential gdp impact of 2%, 3%, 4% and the reality is, that almost certainly will put america back into recession. >> gillian tett great to see you in person. >> thank you. >> special treat. >> we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] it's that time of year again. time for citi price rewind. because your daughter really wants that pink castle thing. and you really don't want to pay more than you have to.
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on gasoline. i am probably going to the gas station about once a month. last time i was at a gas station was about...i would say... two months ago. i very rarely put gas in my chevy volt. i go to the gas station such a small amount that i forget how to put gas in my car. [ male announcer ] and it's not just these owners giving the volt high praise. volt received the j.d. power and associates appeal award two years in a row. ♪ well, having a ton of locations doesn't hurt. and my daughter loves the santa. oh, ah sir. that is a customer.
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let's not tell mom. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. fedex office. and the family car to do an experiment. we put a week of her family's smelly stuff all in at once to prove that febreze car vent clips could eliminate the odor. then we brought her family to our test facility to see if it worked. [ woman ] take a deep breath, tell me what you smell. something fresh. a beach. a clean house. my new car. [ woman ] go ahead and take your blindfolds off. oh!! hahahaha!!! look at all this garbage!!! [ male announcer ] febreze car. eliminates odors for continuous freshness, so you can breathe happy. what political story will make headlines? kelly o'donnell is joining me. nancy pelosi is meeting. do you think she's going to decide to go again? or is she going to step down as leader? >> that's the issue.
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and nancy pelosi is talking to democrats, as she's done before. she's trying to get a sense of what their thinking is and whether it's time for her to continue as the minority leader or step aside so some of those who have been in waiting could step forward. no indications on the timing of her decision or which way she's leaning. in talking to close aids to her, they won't even say she wants the job. it's important because that will shape a lot of the conversation in what will be a year with lots of bipartisan deals needing to be struck and of course, she was the first woman speaker. we're waiting on nancy pelosi and it could be an important decision for the future of her party. they didn't gain as many seats as they had hoped in the house. >> she's been an incredibly important figure. so terribly important. kelly o'donnell, thank you so much. we'll be right back opinion.
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that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." >> in the leadup to the news conference tomorrow, within the last hour, white house press secretary jay carney said the president has faith in his commanders despite the ongoing questions regarding david petraeus's resignation and a brand new investigation into inappropriate e-mails that general john allen exchanged with a woman tied to the petraeus resignation. and "time" magazine's jim frederick will join me. roger simon has a scathing article saying petraeus's lapse in judgment. plus bobby jindal says the gop should stop being the stupid party. we'll get reaction. into their work,
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their name on the door, and their heart into their community. small business saturday is a day to show our support. a day to shop at stores owned by our friends and neighbors. and do our part for the businesses that do so much for us. on november 24th, let's get out and shop small.
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